<br><font size=2 face="sans-serif">Hello William,</font>
<br>
<br><font size=2 face="sans-serif">I agree with Alexander.</font>
<br>
<br><font size=2 face="sans-serif">The intent of widow and orphan control
is to prevent the last line of a paragraph appearing at the top of a page
(a widow) or the first line of a paragraph appearing at the end of a page
(an orphan). The presumption is that it is a multi-line paragraph. It is
also more-or-less an aesthetic consideration. Keep-with-next (or previous)
is generally more important: you really don't want a figure title to be
on a different page than the figure, or a section heading to be separated
from the section contents.</font>
<br>
<br><font size=2 face="sans-serif">Furthemore, you (usually) don't care
if a figure title is an orphan or a section heading is a widow.</font>
<br>
<br><font size=2 face="sans-serif">This is speaking from what I would hope
the specifications would produce, rather than a knowledge of what they
actually say.</font>
<br>
<br><font size=2 face="sans-serif">Regards, Doug x2571</font>
<br>
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<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
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<br><font size=1 face="sans-serif"><b>Alexander Peshkov <peshkov@renderx.com></b></font>
<br><font size=1 face="sans-serif">Sent by: owner-xep-support@renderx.com</font>
<br><font size=1 face="sans-serif">05/05/2004 14:05</font>
<br><font size=1 face="sans-serif">Please respond to xep-support</font>
<td><font size=1 face="Arial"> </font>
<br><font size=1 face="sans-serif"> To:
"Schroeder, William" <xep-support@renderx.com></font>
<br><font size=1 face="sans-serif"> cc:
</font>
<br><font size=1 face="sans-serif"> Subject:
Re[4]: [xep-support] Orphans & Widows</font>
<br><font size=2 face="sans-serif">
</font></table>
<br>
<br>
<br><font size=2><tt>Hello William,<br>
<br>
First of all I would like to note that XSL-FO specification is not very<br>
explicit when describing scope of orphans/widows. It refers to<br>
"number of line-areas in the first/last area generated by the formatting
object"<br>
but it is not clear that is the first area in this context.<br>
<br>
We believe that first area produced by formatting object do not<br>
include line areas produced by its descendants, that's why in your<br>
first example below XEP can break page after section title.<br>
In the situations like yours it is natural to use keep-with-next.within-page="always"<br>
on the section title block instead of 'orphans'.<br>
<br>
The same is for the second example - you expect that all line areas<br>
generated by descendants of the topmost block will be taken into<br>
account then its 'widows' property interpreted. Note however that<br>
orphans/widows properties are inheritable and if your interpretation<br>
will be used you won't have any breaks unless one of the nested blocks<br>
is 7 lines long (orphans="2" (default) and widows="5").<br>
Again, there is a simpler way to achieve desired effect - just set<br>
keep-together.within-page="always" keep-with-pevious.within-page="always"<br>
on the signature table instead of using 'widows'.<br>
<br>
I believe both examples mentioned in your letter are typical usecases<br>
for keep properties rather then for orphans/widows.<br>
<br>
Best regards,<br>
Alexander Peshkov
mailto:peshkov@renderx.com<br>
RenderX<br>
</tt></font>
<br><font size=2><tt>--- snip ---</tt></font>
<br><font size=2><tt>>> >> -----Original Message-----<br>
>> >> From: Schroeder, William [mailto:SCHRO006@onyx.dcri.duke.edu]
<br>
>> >> Sent: 29 April 2004 15:46<br>
>> >> To: 'xep-support@renderx.com'<br>
>> >> Subject: [xep-support] Orphans & Widows<br>
>> >> <br>
>> >> <br>
>> >> I'm a newbie xep-support subscriber and I'm trying to
get widows &<br>
>> orphans<br>
>> >> attributes working. I have created a report with
signature lines at<br>
>> the<br>
>> >> end. Each signature line takes 3 rows, 1 for spacing,
1 for the line,<br>
>> and<br>
>> >> 1<br>
>> >> for the name under the line. The first signature
line occurs at the<br>
>> >> bottom<br>
>> >> of a page with the rest on the next page. The fo is essentially
a block<br>
>> >> containing a 2 column table with an empty table-header
and a table-body<br>
>> >> containing the signature lines. I reason that by
setting the orphans<br>
>> >> attribute to something greater than 3 that this should
force the lone<br>
>> >> signature line to the next page with the others. I
have not been able<br>
>> to<br>
>> >> get the signature line to budge. I have tried numerous
combinations &<br>
>> >> permutations of orphans & widows at the level of
the fo:block,<br>
>> fo:table,<br>
>> >> and<br>
>> >> fo:table-body but nothing seems to work. Any ideas?<br>
>> >> <br>
>> >> Bill Schroeder<br>
>> >> <br>
>> >> -------------------<br>
</tt></font>
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